Interview with Richard Lico!

I had the honor of doing an interview with my iA mentor Richard Lico. Take what you can from this. Really informative and inspiring :)

1. What is your name, where do you work, and what is your position?

Richard Lico - Bungie Studios - Senior Art Lead.

2. How is your day at work usually like? What time does it start and end? How crazy can it get during "crunch"?

My work day is like everyone else most of the time. I fight the morning commute so I can be in work no later than 10am, though I'm usually in by 9. Core hours are between 10am, and 5pm, meaning we must be in the office during that time (minus lunch). And we must put in an 8 hour day. I'm usually out for the day between 6-7pm. Some days, I work late, or go in early because of my work load. It's difficult to predict when that's going to happen, but when another department is blocked by mine, I stay until it's resolved. 

Crunch is different. We try and schedule crunch for 2 weeks before the end of a milestone. We have 4 milestones a year. A milestone is when we take all the little parts of the game everyone's been working on, put them together, and see how the game is progressing as a whole. Milestones get reviewed by our publisher, who has specific criteria for us to meet.

Crunch consists of a 12 hour day minimum, 5 days a week, with some weekend work on occasion. We choose the hours best for us and our families. Right as we're finishing a game, the crunch schedule goes out the window. We just work whatever necessary to get the game done, until its done. This could sustain for weeks, or months straight. Dinner is provided (catering) for anyone who crunches. High quality, healthy food! No crap pizza anymore! Bungie treats us well. 

We also have amenities in-office to help relieve stress and relax on long days. We have an indoor, 2-story climbing wall. A fully stocked snack pantry and drink fridge. We have a liquor license, so we have beer and hard stuff in the kitchen. And a lounge area to clear your head. We also have an L.A. Fitness in the same building, which I frequent. 

I've never had to crunch more than 4 weeks at Bungie. My worst crunch was at Ravensoft, working on Xmen-Legends. I was the only guy doing all cinematics. I worked a crunch schedule + weekend time for 10 months straight, with a new baby at home I rarely got to see. It was a difficult time, and the cinematics were criticized by the media. 

3. Do you spend your time mostly animating or instructing/managing?

We have a dedicated animation manager, and a separate animation producer. My job is to focus on leading thorough mentor-ship, and sometimes by being hands-on. I help guide, and design much of the animation technology at Bungie with our engineers. I document systems, give demos, attend meetings, and act as the translator between design and animation. I provide critiques, and often keep the big-picture goal in everyone's mind. I will often "remain relevant" by taking on some of the animation content creation myself. I animate for about 35% of my time at work. The player character is made-up partly my own work, and work by my player animation team, who I directly oversee. This work is usually the highlight of my day. 

I'm training up a new animation art lead to replace me. I'm changing roles soon so I may focus more of my time on creating key animation performances, and being more hands-on with our technology advancements. My replacement is currently lead over all AI (enemy) character animation as a way of getting his feet wet. He has a group of skilled animators he directs as well. 

We have a separate cinematic team, which I have little interaction with. 

4. How did you get the job you currently have? Did you have to move up the ladder or no?

Yeah. I started out doing spinning logo animations for electronic billboards in Atlanta with Turner Broadcasting. You know, those billboards on the side of the highway that tell you whats on TV that night? It was all I could get straight out of college. That was in 99'/2000, and I didn't stay long. 

Next, i scored a job making games at a budget-ware company called Sunstorm Interactive. We were making less than awesome games like Deer Hunter, Carnivores, etc... I was happy though. Why? Because I was making games and animating!! I was their only animator, and during my 2 years there, I worked on 7 games. 5 of these were published. I upgraded by scoring a job at Ravensoft, where I helped create Jedi Academy and Xmen: Legends. Another mostly enjoyable 2 years spent there. But after that 10 month crunch I previously mentioned, I had to leave. 

I kept my reel updated after every project, and used it to apply to many different studios. By this time, I was getting fairly good animation results, and had 4 years of experience, so I had many choices in front of me. I chose Monolith (Now WB games) because of the people, and the project Condemned: Criminal Origins. I couldn't resist an opportunity to work on a realistic, melee, 1st person game. What a rare and awesome challenge!! Monolith was an amazing experience, and I met some of my closest friends there. I was hired as a combat animator, but was quickly given the lead role because of my performance. I was also given the opportunity to help design the combat system for condemned 1 and 2! I had a huge influence over all the new gameplay in the second game, and still point to that time as one of my happiest in the industry. 

We had just completed Condemned 1, and I had updated my demo reel with my work. I wasn't looking for a new job, but its stupid not to keep yourself marketable. I had a friend at Bungie who saw my reel and showed it off around work. Bungie approached me with the animation lead role at that time, which I turned down politely. I was invested in Condemned 2, which was just starting up, and I wasn't ready to leave, but I kept in touch with Bungie just in case. Kari, Bungie's recruiter and I would touch base every few months while I toiled on C2. I gave her status updates, and she would brief me on their situation. I had a blast making C2, but after it was over, WB decided to disband the team and restructure. This was a bit of a disappointment, so my reason for staying was diminished. I told Kari, and she invited me in for an interview. 

I started work at Bungie in March of 08 as the animation lead for Reach, which was just starting at that time. I was also an advisory over ODST, itself just starting. I was promoted to senior art lead after Reach shipped due to the killer results we achieved as a team.

 5. Where did you go to school and how was it? Any opinions about art school/college in general?

I went to school at the Savannah College of Art and Design, in Savannah, GA. It was a great life experience, and I improved as an artist. But I didn't learn much about animation from SCAD. 3D animation wasn't something schools taught back in the mid 90's, so I didn't have an opportunity to learn 3D animation from them. And SCAD had a habit of forcing students to take a bunch of classes to "broaden their horizons", which to me meant, "spend money on classes that aren't going to get me into animating for games". Now that I've been in the business for 12 years, I can honestly say that my assessment was accurate. I did take a bunch of Photoshop, and basic 3d modeling/rigging/rendering classes. I graduated in 99' with a bachelors in "computer art", and a  3D generalist reel. I did get experience with the 3d packages (Max/Softimage) of the day, which was helpful. And those classes did indeed broaden my horizons. Just not sure if that wider horizon was worth the huge price.

During my final couple years at SCAD, and after graduation, I had to teach myself 3d character animation, so I spent my time working a full-time job and attending classes during the day, and practiced 3d character animation and playing Street Fighter III: 3rd strike with my friends at night. I played a LOT of street fighter during that time, and used the animation in that game as my template for how to animate for games. Most of my foundation knowledge comes from dissecting street fighter, not SCAD. I rarely slept.....

I can't say if SCAD was worth it or not for me... That degree got me in the door at Turner Broadcasting. I didn't have much of a reel, so I relied on my credentials. SCAD allowed me the time to teach myself what I needed, and introduced me to people I work with today. Schools this day and age are much more relevant and focused, including SCAD's own animation and gaming curriculum. And schools like iAnimate really provide relevant, specific, accurate information from the pros in the industry doing the work every day. How could that NOT be worth it!? I would have given anything to have a lesson from one of the 3rd strike animators back in my time.

6. Do you think it's better to go to an art school or to learn by yourself?

Who's responsible for your education? Your school? Your parents? .... no, it's you. College provides real life context in a safe environment. It teaches responsibility, accountability, and how to deal with stress. These are essential life skills. And it teaches information about your chosen trade. It's a school's responsibility to provide you with all the information it can. It's your job to learn that information. If, at the end of your time, you don't have the results, but you have had the opportunity, it's not the school's fault if you fail. 

But learning a trade can be done on your own through observation, if you are self motivated enough. Learning a trade from trained professionals is always a more informative route though. Not everyone has the ability to teach themselves through observation only. My students at iA are progressing faster than I ever did learning on my own. 

7. Did you end up where you thought you'd be today? What were some of the career choices you wanted earlier in life?

In 6th grade, after beating the legend of Zelda (1st quest), I knew I wanted to make games for a living. My 11 year old brain figured doing Nintendo tip-line work was the way in. Thankfully, it turned out, I was wrong on that part, but I never deviated from my goal of being a game developer. Film animation has always been attractive, but I'm too much of a game designer to go that route. 

8.  What was the key moment that made you want to become an animator?

The Street Fighter series has been a HUGE influence for a long time now. I would enter tournaments all over the NYC area where I grew up. And my friends and I played like it was a religion during college. I learned how to count frames, learn rhythm, frame advantage, etc... While I was doing this analysis to get better at the game, the frames of animation became engrained in my head.

When I was in the middle of my time at SCAD, Toy Story came out. It was a HUGE influence as well. If I could animate like Pixar, I'd be ahead of everyone else trying to get into games. So I would study every frame of that movie. I'd watch every choice, arc, pose, personality glance.

Once I tried character animation, all of that knowledge converged into one outlet. I knew then that character animation was my ticket into games. Luckily, as it turned out, I was right to do so. 3D Animators were the most sought after trade back in 99'/2000 when I was looking to break into games.

9. Where do you see yourself in the future? Still have any goals? Any other company/studio that you would want to work for?

For the near future, I'm just focused on getting Destiny done and out the door at the highest quality bar I can. At the end of this project, I'll be changing my role from lead, back to working full-time directly on the next game. I've found that leading isn't nearly as fulfilling to me as being in the trenches. I'm happy at Bungie, and am looking forward to all we have in store. 

I don't have a list of companies I want to work for. I don't think like that. I have work that I want to accomplish in the future. For example, I hope to one day make my own fighting game. I have a design that's been evolving in my head for 12 years now. I'm just waiting for the right opportunity to strike, but I am patient. If a company wants to hire me to do that, so be it. But I expect to have to do that on my own. I may eventually do a film, but it would have to be under the right circumstances, and a topic I'm interested in. Again, my goals, not some company's goals are what I chase after. 

And I'm looking forward to retirement, when I can travel more, teach, and work unfettered by others, making my own decisions. 

10. What inspires you as an artist? Any influences?

Everything! The latest animated films, whatever game I'm playing, the way the person in front of me walks up stairs with a bad left knee... I can't sight anything or anyone specific. Again, my brain just doesn't work like that. Everything is interesting, and worth observing. I actively avoid others instruction on animation these days. I've evolved a very unique method and style which others often times don't quite understand, and they will try and steer me away from. A unique identity makes you easy to spot. Those without one will try and get you to conform. Be wary. 

11. What has been your biggest obstacle into getting where you are today?

Myself. My own personality quarks. My emotional outbursts. My communication style of blunt honesty. My odd way of working. My lack of self confidence and overcompensating arrogance has created missed opportunities. Any setbacks in my life come down to how I've handled those setbacks, or even created them. I probably could be one of the top brass at WB games now if I played those cards differently. Or possibly be the owner of my own successful studio if I had made different decisions. Success takes vision, and honesty to yourself.

Opportunities are there for those who... I was going to say work hard enough, but that's BS. It's for those that work smart enough. I know our cleaning crew, and they work very hard, but they're not making games. Don't look at the path well blazed, it has too many people already on it. Look at the path of most opportunity. Think through your decisions like a chess (or street fighter) match. Your next move should be to support your next 5 moves. Change the way you think, and it will influence what you do. 

12. Do you have any personal time for any side projects?

A little. Right now, my side project is being an iAnimate teacher. I'm also a judge for the yearly awards from the AIAS. (Think of it like being an Oscar judge) I'm headed into the final stretch for Destiny, so my side projects will have to end come January until we,re done. After that, I may start making fighting game animations. ;)

Any side project I do has more benefits than what is directly obvious. With iAnimate, I get paid. That's great, but not why I'm doing it. I get industry wide exposure. I get experience teaching. I used it to leverage a raise at work. IAnimate pay will end when I'm done teaching, a raise is forever. I get more eyes on my demo reel, which may result in a future opportunity. I get to network like mad. And I help improve the industry as a whole by teaching the next generation, and spreading my own strange, yet so much better :), workflow. And by doing that, I may get paid speaking opportunities when I retire like Richard Williams does now.

I also play a lot of games... Sure, it's fun. But for me, it really is research and inspiration. It's where I learn from. 

13. What are some of the things you like about working in the game industry and some of things you don't like?

I love designing and animating gameplay! There's nothing like play testing a great character performance you made. I enjoy the stable, year-round salary work. Not having to float between projects is important, when you have a family like I do. Establishing strong teams that really work well together takes years, which we can do because we're not on a project basis. I like the more artistic freedom animators get in games over film. A director can't possibly review every clip we make, so we're relied on more to be proactive. This leads to more proactive co-workers, since the "list following" people don't usually make it, which I like. 

I don't like crunch, but it's common in all entertainment work. I've crunched just as much on freelance commercials for Shilo, as I did for Halo. 

14. Does your company take internships? Whats your view on them?

We may take internships in the future, but not right now. Internships are tricky business. A gamble... The student usually has the naive perspective that free work is free work, why turn it down? But reality is very different. Every person at the office, paid or unpaid, needs certain things. They need tools like a computer to work on that has all the requirements for security, networking, and hardware that works with our game engine. They need pricey software to work with like Maya, Max, Havok, and any middleware, etc.... And they need more time from co-workers and leads to help train them. And if those highly paid individuals are spending time with an intern, the question arises "is that the best use of their time? Could they take that time, and just do that work themselves at a much higher quality bar?" And for all this spent money and time by highly paid contributors, interns have a real difficulty producing the quality of work necessary to even be used in the shipping product. So the company may not get the return on the investment.

This isn't unique to interns though. Hiring anyone with little experience runs this risk. I did that 2 hit melee chain in class in 5 hours, which included me explaining each step as I went. Yet I spent 3 weeks, and 2 semesters teaching students how to do that. That's 18 hours of training. I could have done 3, maybe 4 times the amount of content in that 18 hours, at the required quality bar. This isn't a knock on the students, but it does illustrate how a company views interns. If the interns could hit that bar after that little training, they wouldn't be interns needing the training in the first place. Schools like iAnimate ARE essentially an internship, and why it exists. You're getting everything I teach my team at work, but you're getting a lot more of my time. Each member of my team may get me for 15 minutes a week. But that's all they need.

The flip side is that hiring Interns gives a company access to the next Jason Ryan, Cameron Fielding, or John Lassiter when they're still rookies. And that's so valuable! So, like I said, a gamble.